smiddy3, I noticed there are at least 3 different books with the title of "The Atheist's Bible". Which one do you mean? Do you mean "The Atheist's Bible: An Illustrious Collection of Irreverent Thoughts" by Joan Konner?
Disillusioned JW
JoinedPosts by Disillusioned JW
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28
Which English Translations of the Bible are you Favorites, and Why?
by Disillusioned JW inwhich english translations of the bible are you favorites, and why?
my favorites include the (english) revised version bible (of 1881-1885) and its apocrypha (of 1898), the american revised version bible (of 1898, it close to the american standard version), the american standard version bible (of 1901), the new american standard bible - updated edition, the new revised standard version bible with the apocrypha, the complete bible: an american translation (it includes the apocrypha), and the twentieth century new testament.
i also use others beside those.. they are my favorites because i consider them to be highly accurate, and also they are either very literal (but not so literal as to be hard to understand) or they use functional equivalence.
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156
Remembering Rutherford
by Sea Breeze inhe seems to me to be the angriest and most ill-tempered of all the wt presidents, especially after his stint in prison and failed prophecies.. “regarding his misguided statements as to what we could expect in 1925, he [rutherford] once confessed to us at bethel, “i made an ass of myself.”” watchtower 1984 oct 1 p.24.
rutherford died at beth sarim on january 8, 1942, at the age of 72.
[220] cause of death was...carcinoma of the rectum..."[21] .
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Disillusioned JW
minimus, regarding your statement of "Dis, you really can’t trust a false prophet, unless of course you change your mind again", when I momentarily switched back to thinking the WT was not commercialized I was not yet fully convinced that the WT was (and is) a charlatan and I was not yet fully convinced it was (and is) a false prophet, though I had begun to heavily lean in that direction. Also I was thinking that even if they are a false prophet, they still might have been sincere in making their predictions/'prophecies' just like many Christians today believe that God through his holy spirit gives them ideas and guidance and even tells them things.
While I was still making up my mind about whether the WT was a charlatan and a false prophet I had switched back to saying that the WT was not commercialized (see https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5172254521425920/remembering-rutherford?page=13 ). But, one day after that (after I read a couple of posts of others and thought about them) I concluded that that the WT maybe had sold literature (and if true, then they are dishonest and at times even lying about the matter) - (see https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5077215193595904/why-dont-practicing-jws-cant-accept-fact-that-watchtower-corporation-commercialized-false-prophet?page=4 ). Such caused me to think that maybe the WT was commercialized. Later I noticed that WT literature sometimes (even in some of Rutherford's books) specifically states that the amount of money requested for literature was a request for a contribution.
It wasn't until about three days after I concluded that the WT probably was probably commercialized and that it might (even probably) technically be a false prophet (even if sincere in their predictions/'prophecies') that I discovered Rutherford's definition of prophecy in his book called Life. It was that discovery (of which I made a post about today; see page 13 of this topic thread) that convinced me that the WT is in some senses a false prophet.
Did I say I trust the WT? I don't believe I said that. I don't believe everything they say, though I admittedly provisionally trust some of their claims without direct evidence. I read their literature critically and research some of the claims they make. Some things they say are true, but some other things they say are not true. It is somewhat like how I consider former President Trump to be a habitual excessive compulsive liar while at the same time I recognize that some things he said are true, and that he had some good policies (and that I need to think critically about what he says and research sources to do fact checking). It is a matter of using discernment with one's information sources.
Regarding the sales tax issue about collecting money for literature (including magazines) I think (more than I thought until a couple of days ago) that it wasn't just the WT wanting to avoid having to pay sales tax. It think it was also about how complicated it would be to properly collect sales taxes (other than at conventions in response to ads in literature) and thus I now think they were telling a major part of the truth when they said they changed their contribution policy (partly in order to simplify matters).
Think about it. JWs while engaged in the field ministry would have to inform people about the sales tax and the JW publishers would have to collect the proper amount and submit proper paperwork to the WT (via their congregation) about the sales tax. Likewise the people working in the magazine and literature counters at the Kingdom Halls would have to properly collect sales tax and send the documentation correctly to the WT (via the congregation's accounts servant). If there were errors (including if publishers picked up literature at the Kingdom Halls and left behind money, or no money at all, and didn't leave a note saying what they took, when no servant was present) it could create a big recording keeping problem. [Even before the contribution procedure was simplified it was still a problem creating accurate records of the literature (including magazines) distributed from the counters and collecting the money; in a congregation I attended locks were put onto the literature and magazine cabinets to help solve the problem.] Furthermore JWs collecting sales tax might would have to be classified as sales employees of the WT. Yet virtually none of the JWs are qualified to properly handle such business type transactions and the associated record keeping.
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156
Remembering Rutherford
by Sea Breeze inhe seems to me to be the angriest and most ill-tempered of all the wt presidents, especially after his stint in prison and failed prophecies.. “regarding his misguided statements as to what we could expect in 1925, he [rutherford] once confessed to us at bethel, “i made an ass of myself.”” watchtower 1984 oct 1 p.24.
rutherford died at beth sarim on january 8, 1942, at the age of 72.
[220] cause of death was...carcinoma of the rectum..."[21] .
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Disillusioned JW
I recently revised my view about whether or not the WT sold literature. See https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5077215193595904/why-dont-practicing-jws-cant-accept-fact-that-watchtower-corporation-commercialized-false-prophet?page=4 where in two posts I state my revised view of "... maybe ... the WT was literally selling literature." As a result I once again believe that the WT was commercialized for many decades. However, in my second post on that web page I mentioned two WT books did use the phrase "a contribution" in ads in the back of those books. Later I noticed that at least two books by Rutherford use the word "contribution", "contribute", or "contributing" in two of the ads in the back of each of those books, namely in my copy of the books called Religion and Enemies.
Regarding the Life book it is Interesting that it is not included in the list of Rutherford's books that is in an ad in the 1940 book by Rutherford called Religion, even though all of his other rainbow colored hardcover series of books are. The 128-page Comfort For The Jews book is also not advertised in the Religion book, nor in Rutherford's 1937 book called Enemies. It seems to be that the Life book was a replacement for the Comfort For The Jews book.
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156
Remembering Rutherford
by Sea Breeze inhe seems to me to be the angriest and most ill-tempered of all the wt presidents, especially after his stint in prison and failed prophecies.. “regarding his misguided statements as to what we could expect in 1925, he [rutherford] once confessed to us at bethel, “i made an ass of myself.”” watchtower 1984 oct 1 p.24.
rutherford died at beth sarim on january 8, 1942, at the age of 72.
[220] cause of death was...carcinoma of the rectum..."[21] .
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Disillusioned JW
Until about two weeks ago I was convinced that technically that the WT was a not a false prophet despite making numerous failed predictions. Furthermore about a week ago I discovered that by a definition of prophecy, made by Rutherford and stated in one of the WT's own books, they are a false prophet. The book is called Life and was written by Rutherford, someone who claimed to be one of the anointed of Jehovah God, (and copyrighted in 1929 by him). On page 51, in Chapter II, the book, as transcribed at http://www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/life/life2.html , says: "Prophecy means the foretelling of events that are to transpire, before they do take place. Prophecy can be understood and properly interpreted after its fulfilment, or when in course of fulfilment." The numerous books written by Rutherford of the WT, and other publications of the WT, made numerous false predictions. As such, according the above quote the WT has made and stated its own prophecies and since many of such have failed, then the WT is a false prophet (by one of their own former definitions of a prophet).
However, in the Life book Rutherford makes claims that the predictions about 1878, 1914, 1918, and 1925 came true. See for example Chapters VI and VII of the book.
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The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet
by The Quiet One inregarding what some have said here about the wt being a false prophet.. i would like to make my point regarding the wt not being a false prophet... so please, if you can be patient enough to read this, at least try to understand what i am getting at.. a false prophet is one who, according to deuteronomy, makes a false prediction of the future and claims that the prediction came from god, or in other words claiming that 'god has said he will do a certain thing at a certain time' etc.. for example, hypothetically speaking, if someone had claimed: "god will bring about the end of the world in 2010", they would have been proven to be a false prophet, obviously.
but, as an example, imagine a man who claimed the position of a prophet of god, (as moses did, because although he was not the type of prophet that predicted the future.. he was still a prophet or spokesman for god) and that he had publicised worldwide, according to his interpretation of a (for example) prophecy found in the book of isaiah, that the world would end in 2010.. and he had also stated that he was not saying that god will end the world in that year.. but only that there was biblical evidence that god might do so.
that would clearly have been a mistake.
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Disillusioned JW
Until a several days I was convinced that technically that the WT was a not a false prophet despite making numerous failed predictions. But now I see by the definition of prophecy given in one of the WT's own books, they are a false prophet. The book is called Life and was written by Rutherford (and copyrighted in 1929 by him). On page 51, in Chapter II, the book (written by someone who claimed to be one of the anointed of Jehovah God), as transcribed at http://www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/life/life2.html , says: "Prophecy means the foretelling of events that are to transpire, before they do take place. Prophecy can be understood and properly interpreted after its fulfilment, or when in course of fulfilment." The book and numerous other ones written by Rutherford of the WT, and other publications of the WT, made numerous false predictions. As such, according the above quote the WT has made and stated its own prophecies and since many of such have failed, then the WT is a false prophet (by one of their own former definitions of a prophet).
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Which English Translations of the Bible are you Favorites, and Why?
by Disillusioned JW inwhich english translations of the bible are you favorites, and why?
my favorites include the (english) revised version bible (of 1881-1885) and its apocrypha (of 1898), the american revised version bible (of 1898, it close to the american standard version), the american standard version bible (of 1901), the new american standard bible - updated edition, the new revised standard version bible with the apocrypha, the complete bible: an american translation (it includes the apocrypha), and the twentieth century new testament.
i also use others beside those.. they are my favorites because i consider them to be highly accurate, and also they are either very literal (but not so literal as to be hard to understand) or they use functional equivalence.
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Disillusioned JW
The edition I have of the American Revised Version Bible (ARV) and one of my editions of the (English) Revised Version Bible (RV) are both rare editions which I bought on eBay. They were each published in 1898, "Printed for the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge" and published (or distributed) by their respective New York, U.S.A. branch. They both have copious scriptural marginal references. The RV edition has a genuine leather cover. Both Bibles include alternate readings and alternate renderings.
The other RV Bible I have is part of the "The Parallel Bible" published in 1890. It is a rare edition (and has a genuine leather cover) which has the Authorized Version (AV/KJV) and RV in parallel columns. It is "Printed for the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge" and distributed from the Oxford Warehouse in London and the Cambridge Warehouse in London. It includes alternate readings and alternate renderings for both the AV/KJV and the RV. It includes "Helps to The Study of the Bible, comprising summaries of the several books with copious explanatory notes and tables illustrative of scripture history ...", a "Subject-Index to the Holy Scriptures", a "Concordance to the Holy Scriptures", and color maps. I bought it on eBay.
One edition I have of the ASV is a very hard to find wide-margin edition (with copious scripture cross-references) published by Thomas Nelson which includes the Apocrypha of the RV. Another edition I have of the ASV is "Nelson's Teachers' Edition". It has a bonded leather cover (and is thumb notch indexed). It includes copious scripture cross-references and "The Concise BIBLE DICTIONARY with numerous illustrations based upon The Illustrated Bible Treasury written by leading scholars in America and Great Britain together with a new concordance to the American Revised Version (Standard Edition), with over ten thousand references to the Authorized Version of 1611, combined with a subject-index and pronouncing dictionary of scripture proper names and A New Indexed Bible Atlas". That Bible Dictionary section is copyright 1900 by Thomas Nelson & Sons and its illustrations include photographs. I also have a newer printing of the "Teachers' Edition" by Nelson.
Though I am now an atheist I consider the above mentioned Bibles to be treasures of mine. I love the craftsmanship of four of the above mentioned Bibles.
The editions I have of the NRSV with the Apocrypha are of "The New Oxford Annotated Bible" - with Apocrypha (and I also have one for the RSV with the Apocrypha: Expanded Edition). I also have "The Oxford Study Bible - Revised English Bible with the Apocrypha: A Complete Guide to the World of the Bible". The NASB-Updated edition I have is the "Life Application Study Bible". I also have the "Today's Parallel Bible" consisting of the NIV, NASB-Updated, KJV (the latter of which is based upon the Cambridge Paragraph Bible of 1873), and NLT.
I have the "Saint Joseph Edition of the New American Bible" (a Catholic Bible with annotations) and it includes full color illustrations.
I have "The Open Bible - New King James Version" and a Holman UltraThin Reference Edition of the NKJV.
I also have the "Zondervan NIV Study Bible - 2008 Update", the Student Bible - NIV, the "Couples' Devotional Bible" - TNIV, "The New Testament In Modern Speech: An idiomatic translation into everyday English from the text of the Resultant Greek Testament" - "Fifth Edition", "The S. S. Teacher's Edition: THE HOLY BIBLE ... Authorized King James Version (which includes "The Oxford Cyclopedia Concordance ..") published by Oxford At The University Press and it has a leather cover, several editions of the NWT (ones published prior to 2013), and several other Bibles (including two Jewish translations of the Hebrew Scriptures).
I also have various Concordances, some of which include Study Helps.
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What Do You Think About The Government Going Door to Door To Get You Vaccinated?
by minimus ini hate anyone bothering me going door to door and house to house.
maybe it’s my jw background?
i dunno..
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Disillusioned JW
I agree with titch on this matter. It is very much like if people from the fire department come to your door to urge you to evacuate due to an approaching wildfire or of an impending eruption of a volcano (such as back in 1980 about Mount St. Helens), or if other government people came to your door to warn you of some other approaching impending natural disaster (such as a flood or of an approaching meteor).
The ABC News articles says in part "... Biden called for a stepped-up vaccination strategy that would rely on volunteers like faith leaders, local medical professionals and community organizations to canvas neighborhoods." Since the JWs believe their (former) door to door work of preaching to people is a warning work, comparable to government officials going door to door to warn people of an impending natural disaster, maybe the JWs should participate in the door to door vaccination strategy.
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Which English Translations of the Bible are you Favorites, and Why?
by Disillusioned JW inwhich english translations of the bible are you favorites, and why?
my favorites include the (english) revised version bible (of 1881-1885) and its apocrypha (of 1898), the american revised version bible (of 1898, it close to the american standard version), the american standard version bible (of 1901), the new american standard bible - updated edition, the new revised standard version bible with the apocrypha, the complete bible: an american translation (it includes the apocrypha), and the twentieth century new testament.
i also use others beside those.. they are my favorites because i consider them to be highly accurate, and also they are either very literal (but not so literal as to be hard to understand) or they use functional equivalence.
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Disillusioned JW
LV101 the JW.org website of the WT contains an online version of the 1984 NWT as well as other Bibles, besides the latest version of the NWT. However, I haven't been to a Kingdom Hall in years (except for memorial services of 2 JW elderly family members of mine who died), thus I don't know the official policy but I suspect the newest version is the primary NWT used in JW current meetings.
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What are your personal reasons for hating the Jehovah's Witnesses religion ?
by Rocketman123 infirst thing comes to mind is that this organization through its leaders are not witnessing the true and honest version of the gospel teachings of jesus christ .. they are subjectively teaching/preaching a tainted version made up by the top controlling men of the organization, which i'm sure is connected to the proliferation and distribution of literature which these men publish themselves.
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when jesus said that no one knows of the time not even he, he didn't say a select few will know .. the other thing that bothers me is this organization promotes human ignorance on many levels, admonishing education or knowledge that mankind needs for its very survival... there are many other religious organizations that do this as well but the jws is just one of these organizations.
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Disillusioned JW
During the past few years I purchased used college textbooks in each of the subjects mentioned above which I avoided taking a college course in. I'm glad I now own such books and I have learned much from them.
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What are your personal reasons for hating the Jehovah's Witnesses religion ?
by Rocketman123 infirst thing comes to mind is that this organization through its leaders are not witnessing the true and honest version of the gospel teachings of jesus christ .. they are subjectively teaching/preaching a tainted version made up by the top controlling men of the organization, which i'm sure is connected to the proliferation and distribution of literature which these men publish themselves.
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when jesus said that no one knows of the time not even he, he didn't say a select few will know .. the other thing that bothers me is this organization promotes human ignorance on many levels, admonishing education or knowledge that mankind needs for its very survival... there are many other religious organizations that do this as well but the jws is just one of these organizations.
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Disillusioned JW
JESUSnameALONE, since you say that Jehovah is not the name of the father, who do you say YHWH/Yahweh/Jehovah Elohim/God is?
Folks, regarding the claim that the JW religion does not allow JWs to go to college is it really true? I know that the religion highly discourages JWs to attend college but I don't recall their literature forbidding attending college. My mom has been a baptized JW ever since a number of years prior to her marriage to my father (who was a JW when he got married and he was still one when he died). My mother attended college (but as far as I know my JW father never attended college) and didn't stop attending college until my sister was born. My sister and I became baptized while we were in high school and we both went to college upon graduating from high school (I even took two college courses before graduating from high school and one of those two courses was at my high school). We both got a full 4-year college/university degree (though neither or us managed to obtain much financial benefit from our degree). At age 19 and while in college full-time I was appointed a ministerial servant and I served as one for several years. If the WT now actually forbids JWs to get a college degree or to even attend college then I am shocked. If the WT actually now forbids it that is very bad and very sad.
My mom and others in the congregation we attended even used me as an example to other JWs in our congregation to show that going to college won't necessarily cause a JW to loose his faith and/or go bad. My mom highly values college education. She even sent college enrollment applications in my name (and for some time without my knowledge) to big name colleges across the nation, because she wanted me to go to the best college possible. Many years later I did loose my belief in the religion and later even in the god and the supernatural (but I didn't go bad morally or ethically, though JWs might think I went bad in regards to ceasing to be a JW), but it was not due to anything I learned or experienced as a college student (except maybe a tiny bit of what was taught to me in college). While in college I lived my in mom's home, rather than in a college dorm and I still participated in the congregation which I attended since around age 2 or so. While in college I avoided taking classes of the type which I thought would likely challenge my confidence in the Bible, but I now regret not taking those classes (physical anthropology, physical geology [since it would present evidence in favor of radiometric dating], historical geology [since it would present evidence for radiometric dating, including carbon dating, and fossil evidence for evolution], introduction to philosophy [where arguments against the existence of a god would likely be discussed], philosophy of religion, introductory biology [since it would present evidence and arguments for evolution], and an English course in the Bible as literature [since it might suggest that much of what is in the Bible never actually happened]).